Chat Apr27 2010

up late [4:02:16 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Iam in a working group meeting - post expiry domain name recovery [4:02:40 PM] punkcast: good luck with that! [4:03:00 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Thanks [4:03:30 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Did that meeting with the OWD board members take place? [4:03:37 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: What do they feel? [4:03:51 PM] punkcast: Yes. I will mail the list. [4:04:58 PM] punkcast: Just David Johnson. He said they thought they had no resources so they went along with Kapor & co shutting down. [4:05:08 PM] punkcast: He was quite sympathetic. [4:05:23 PM] punkcast: Said just get on with it. [4:05:51 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: I did have the feeling that the Board must have been misguided [4:05:57 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: so that is true [4:06:38 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Kapor & Co must have mad ethe board to believe that it is a good thing for OWD to merge with Mozilla [4:07:18 PM] punkcast: The volunteers are a resource - and the the ignoring of bottom up procedure is egergious IMHO [4:07:28 PM] punkcast: but it's not worth making a fuss over [4:07:39 PM] punkcast: egregious [4:08:04 PM] punkcast: I'm steeling myself to talk to NAthan JAmes, and ask for the keys to the ning. [4:08:27 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Yes, that would be a good thing [4:08:38 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: All this happened after Nathan took over [4:09:07 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Susan kind of relinquished control of OWD. She needn't have become detached [4:09:37 PM] punkcast: well she was co-opted by obama [4:09:57 PM] punkcast: the thing now is to show that her baby has legs and can stand on its own [4:10:35 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Yes. [4:10:47 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Would nathan part with the ning netrwork [4:10:52 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: network? [4:10:57 PM] punkcast: I think so [4:11:13 PM] punkcast: I want to replace it with buddypress [4:11:32 PM] punkcast: but initially I'll likely go back to wiki [4:12:17 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Will Nathan continue to be assoicated with OWD or will he have a role to play with Mozilla? [4:12:53 PM] punkcast: he has a job with drumbeat - community outreach organizer or something like that [4:13:16 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: good for him [4:13:33 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Drumbeat is new ? Or has it been in existence? [4:14:13 PM] punkcast: it's new - it's onewebday 365 - it's kind of like a combimnation of ning and digg for projects [4:14:46 PM] punkcast: and the top projects get funding [4:15:41 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: But talks more about open source and [4:15:59 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: loks impressive, projects look good, but differ from that of OWD [4:16:16 PM] punkcast: It's a worthy effort and some good things are going to come from it but I think it makes for identity problems with some projects [4:16:23 PM] punkcast: for instance [4:17:41 PM] punkcast: http://www.drumbeat.org/project/universal-subtitles/ [4:17:53 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: yes I am loking at the web [4:18:06 PM] punkcast: I saw this posted to a list and the poster said oh, it's a mozilla foundation project [4:18:12 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: the p2p web looks interesting [4:18:31 PM] punkcast: I had to correct them to point out it is a Participatory Culture Foundation project [4:19:11 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: p2; university? [4:19:26 PM] punkcast: huh? [4:20:27 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: http://www.drumbeat.org/project/p2p-university-open-web-career-track [4:20:47 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: which of these projects is a participatory culture foundation project? [4:21:13 PM] punkcast: universal subtitles [4:21:18 PM] punkcast: There are alternatives which don't create the same identity confusion and are simpler for example a new project fostered by isoc-ny wnet staright to kickstarter for funding [4:21:32 PM] punkcast: http://joindiaspora.com/ [4:21:54 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: p2p university looks like an idea that originated from MacArthur Foundation's participatory learning project [4:22:20 PM] punkcast: yes so drumbeat is a kind of project clearing house [4:22:52 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: they have the digital media contest (mac arthur) I submitted an entry for open classrooms, based on which I later proposed an IGF workshop which did not happen [4:22:56 PM] punkcast: it's amuch bigger idea than onewebday [4:23:51 PM] punkcast: but onewebday is a worthy project, and in some ways is broader than drumbeat, as it's not just about projects [4:24:09 PM] punkcast: but about the unity of the network [4:26:17 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: If you have access to the Mozilla board, it is a good idea to ask for funds for an independant OWD, Mozilla foundation can be given the credit for buildig up OWD, may be even shown as an associate project of Drumbeat??? Just thinking aloud. [4:26:59 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Sort of asking Kapor to believe again in OWD, and support from the outisde [4:27:02 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: outside [4:27:24 PM] punkcast: owd is just another project - it can live or die like all the others I would imagine would be the response. [4:27:43 PM] punkcast: they are working on "we make the web" month for june [4:27:44 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: then we don't have to go to them [4:28:06 PM] punkcast: that is a combined effort from wikipedia, creative commons, and mozilla [4:28:54 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: that is an impressive coalition [4:29:24 PM] punkcast: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Drumbeat/campaignstorm/We_Make_the_Web [4:29:39 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: But their focus is more on open source, it is not as broad as preserving the freedom of the web or preserving the core internet values [4:31:09 PM] punkcast: right [4:31:23 PM] punkcast: unity and the internet model [4:31:36 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: But they are not too narrow "Simplify and popularize 'internet as public resource' idea by pointing to the 100s of millions of individuals who post valuable content online. Visualize this. Encourage people posting content online to feel like they have a stake in the future of the internet. Help them choose technology and licenses that genuinely make the web better." [4:31:54 PM] punkcast: that's from last oct - i'll find a newer link [4:34:12 PM] punkcast: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Foundation/We_Make_The_Web_Month [4:34:59 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: They have the resources and expertise to bring bloggers and content developers together and build a community, the idea appears to be that of building a social network around a non-profit mission [4:35:07 PM] punkcast: they're behind schedule I think [4:35:55 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Creative Commons Mozilla Foundation Wikimedia Foundation OneWebDay: At a minimum, OWD leads will support by participating in planning process (including a call for ideas from the OWD network), using "OWD Ambassadors" network/model to generate 30+ blog posts and/or videos, and engaging OWD volunteers to co-produce local events during May. [4:36:55 PM] punkcast: ah in NAthan's announcement: [4:36:57 PM] punkcast: "Finally, Mozilla, Creative Commons, and the Wikimedia Foundation are launching the Be Open campaign for the month of June. We will be making announcements soon on how you can get involved in promoting the Open Web during the campaign!" [4:37:19 PM] punkcast: http://onewebday.org/2010/04/06/onewebday-joins-forces-with-mozilla-drumbeat-%E2%80%93-364-extra-days-to-build-an-open-web/ [4:39:49 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: One day comes and goes, but a drumbeat goes on, which is why, with this new relationship, OneWebDay will retire its brand and invite all of its people to join forces with Drumbeat’s growing community [4:40:25 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: I think all this happened as developments around Nathan's career moves [4:43:16 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: From being OWD Executive Director he moved on to have a role ( what ? ) in the better known Mozilla foundation ??? [4:44:53 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: there is no central support for any future event or project using the “OneWebDay” brand. We believe that OneWebDay values can be enacted best by working within the Drumbeat initiative [4:44:54 PM] punkcast: There was tension last year in OWD in that his emphasis was more on projects than on the day, now resolved. [4:45:21 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Now the day is gone [4:45:32 PM] punkcast: Not yet it isn't. [4:46:25 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: In the present scheme of things, if we don't take over and take back OWD name from Nathaniel [4:47:08 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: It looked like he decided all this, the Board is possibly costititued by people too busy to spend time understanding OWED [4:47:44 PM] punkcast: it's just returning it to a volunteer organization - they recruited Kapor because he had resources, but he chose to put his resources into drumbeat. I belive Nathan was paid by Ford Founsdation, and that money has run out. [4:48:10 PM] punkcast: So there is no money to continue which is why they folded. SUan put in effort and money. [4:48:42 PM] punkcast: Susan.. She's was already out of the picture and, plainly, not willing to step back in. [4:49:00 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Drumbeat certainly looks impressive, it could emerge as a powerful movement with a huge participant base, The issue is with how Nathan chose to handle OWD after he chose to work for Drumbeat [4:49:30 PM] punkcast: Yes the board went alomg with Susan, then Kapor & Nathan. [4:49:37 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Mozilla doesn't need the OWD 'brand' [4:49:57 PM] punkcast: They plan a drumbeat festival in the fall. [4:50:53 PM] punkcast: OWD was a stepping stone to drumbeat - that's the way they see it, because it was all about getting a movement started - no about establishing the day per se. [4:55:04 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: I argued to create OWD's own social network in the thread Re: [owd-web] A Community network for OneWebDay 12/18/08 "My suggestion is to scale up the OWD site to make it more interactive to encourage user participation and user communication." [4:55:51 PM] punkcast: That was the point of the ning [4:56:11 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: This was in response to your Proposal for a Global OneWebDay Community [4:56:20 PM] punkcast: but it's debatable how effective it was over the traduitional mailing list [4:59:29 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: "uild a truly global community - a Community with a purpose to bring together all those who are interested in preserving the fundamental values of the Internet. We already have a One Web Day community, let's begin with the community as members of the Global Social Netwrtork - definitely not NING, but something like a Linked In on our own, serious users committed to Internet values.  Could be organized as a social networking portal to bring in people with interest in various issues - Net Neutrality, FoE, Access for instance and one by one include various issues. " [5:00:30 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: This was the idea for a "LinkedIn on our own" for OWD, which is what Nathan seems to have built for Mozilla [5:00:35 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: as Drumbeat [5:00:36 PM] punkcast: You see I belive that we focus our efforts on OneWebDay not building networks or anything else [5:01:00 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: No, I am not proposing that we build a network now [5:01:16 PM] punkcast: You are saying he took your idea and ran with it :) [5:02:05 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Can't really be so harsh, but I see traces of this idea in Drumbeat, This was the first ever email thread, first discussion after Nathan took over [5:03:11 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Drumbeat is a far more elaborate idea, with all the componets of projects [5:03:23 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: It is well positioned [5:03:51 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: It pitches to attract the Open source community with which Mozilla and wikipedia are already well connected [5:09:06 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: sorry got disconnected [5:11:18 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Can't really be so harsh, but I see traces of this idea in Drumbeat, This was the first ever email thread, first discussion after Nathan took over Drumbeat is a far more elaborate idea, with all the componets of projects It is well positioned It pitches to attract the Open source community with which Mozilla and wikipedia are already well connected [5:11:30 PM] punkcast: it's not so elaborate - it's a clearing house for projects [5:13:16 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: it is at least more elaborate than the idea ofa not for profit social network [5:14:43 PM] punkcast: there isn't a lot of user-user networking in there, it's basically bbs thread on each project, and a system of voting up popular projects - AFAICT [5:16:44 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: the strength would come from mozilla and its partners' capacity to fund drumbeat and the popular projects... My inference is that they really don't need the OWD brand, so I think Nathan would part with the keys to Ning and would leave OWD alone, if we insist snip [5:16:45 PM] *** punkcast added Lou Klepner, Matt Cooperrider *** [5:17:04 PM] punkcast: they're away but they may show up [5:17:53 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: How many members did the OWD Board have? [5:18:01 PM] *** punkcast added Thomas Lowenhaupt *** [5:18:48 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: a group convessation is a good idea.. Will they get to see our discussions so far? [5:19:02 PM] punkcast: I'm not sure snip [5:27:29 PM] *** punkcast added Eric Brunner-Williams *** [5:29:23 PM] punkcast: eric is here Shiva [5:29:31 PM] punkcast: you know him? [5:29:52 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: howdy [5:30:53 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: hello snip [5:35:57 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Joly and Ihave had a long OWD conversation [5:36:09 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: good [5:36:18 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Is it visible on this window to you? [5:36:22 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: no [5:38:20 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: have mailed a pdf to Joly, Joly may send that to you for the context of the conversation [5:38:55 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: good [5:41:12 PM] punkcast: http://archive.onewebday.org/wiki/index.php?title=Chat_Apr27_2010 [5:41:39 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: click [5:42:09 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: reading [5:42:41 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Joly, this group chat is a good step towards action on OWD [5:43:28 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: query: what is buddypress and what is the "ning network" that Nathan James might of might not part with? [5:43:59 PM] punkcast: buddypress is a social networking plug in suite for wordpress multi user [5:44:07 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: ok [5:44:32 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: It was used to network OWD volunteers. [5:44:49 PM] punkcast: ning is an off the shelf social network free w/ ads or $25/mo as currently used by the NCUC [5:44:50 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: the Ning network contains the OWD volunteer database [5:44:51 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: "the ning"? [5:44:54 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: ok [5:45:12 PM] punkcast: http://my.onewebday.org [5:45:33 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: done. [5:48:03 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: co-incidently, the network resource startup center will be offering an advanced registry operations course at bamako, mali, the week of owd. (core may co-sponsor it, as we did the intro course at the week before the nairobi icann meeting, also in nairobi) [5:48:42 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: the week of sep 22? [5:49:57 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: yup [5:50:14 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: 20-24 [5:51:02 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: We can think of a OWD event at bamako [5:51:10 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: of course [5:51:33 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: back to the asset ... the volunteers list [5:52:05 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: It is not only the volunteer's list, bu twe need the OneWebDay name [5:52:37 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: The name appears to have been bequeathed to the Mozilla Foundation [5:52:39 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: well ... there's OneNetDay too [5:53:14 PM] punkcast: I believe for continuity we should stick with onewebday, at least for 2010 [5:53:41 PM] punkcast: Personally I would like an independent board [5:53:47 PM] punkcast: Independent of Mozilla [5:53:52 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Yes, we don't have to part with the OWD name [5:53:58 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: if it can be had. if it can't, then its a dos unless the ip is distinct [5:54:28 PM] punkcast: I don't believe it's going to be a problem. Mozilla has other fish to fry. [5:54:42 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: you're going to do the ask? [5:54:47 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: If we get the OWD name, OWD can work with Drumbeat to support drumbeat, apart fromn celeberating OWD [5:55:21 PM] punkcast: Yes. I already proposed it to the Treasurer David Johnson. [5:55:44 PM] punkcast: I belive we ask as a group. I am convener [5:55:54 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: that is a good idea [5:55:59 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: to ask as a group [5:56:08 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: +1 [5:56:21 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: with as many OWD board members as could be included [5:56:48 PM] punkcast: Essentuially the board had not considered the option of returning OWD to an all-volunteer organization. [5:56:48 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: OWD Board Members + Isoc NY clout [5:57:00 PM] punkcast: We will give them that option. [5:57:15 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: It is not a new voluntary organization [5:57:41 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: It is the option of leaving OWD as it is, after Nathan's exit, after Kapor's detachment [5:57:52 PM] punkcast: Their concept was funding and staff [5:57:55 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: we are not doing anything new to OWD [5:58:23 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: well, assuming that a non-trivial subset of the volunteers can be found independently, the volunteers have the option of continuing to do what they volunteered for, or doing what the board volunteered for them. [5:58:31 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: OWD goes on as before, without being affected by the exit of Kapor and Nathan, without being affected by the formation of drumbeat [5:58:53 PM] punkcast: Right. And it won't be much of a step down :) [5:59:13 PM] Eric Brunner-Williams: except for those designated as saleried [5:59:39 PM] punkcast: It can be a drumbeat participant, and a such it makes sense to be independent of Mozilla. [6:00:42 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: Not only a participant, but OWD can SUPPORT Drumbeat by helping Drumbeat get established, with help from OWD volunteers, with help from OWD connections [6:01:00 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: We can also offer invaluable ideas to give shape to drumbeat [6:01:17 PM] punkcast: that's the status quo right there [6:02:13 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: No, now it is more like OWD taken over, absorbed by Drumbeat with the effect that the volunteer base is turned over to Drumbeat [6:02:29 PM] Sivasubramanian Muthusamy: With a continuing OWD, it is more of independant support [6:02:39 PM] punkcast: I take your point